Zima Red ep 146: Ladan Jiracek - Time for the Matrix? The Present & Future of Brain Machine Interfaces
Primer: Implants…in your brain? Why? What are they currently used for and how might developments in the field pan out? Let’s find out from Ladan Jiracek in this episode of Zima Red.
Background
Currently a PhD student at the University of Florida
Speaks 6 languages and has been to over 100 countries
Host of the Neural Implant Podcast
His interest in brain-computer interfaces started 15 years ago during his undergraduate days
At that time, he did his internship at Blackrock Microsystems, which was the only FDA-approved brain-computer interface (BCI)/brain implant
What Sparked His Interest In BCI?
His internship was held at a nanofabrication lab
The founder of the company was teaching one of his classes
Through surgery, they put an implant into the brains of paralyzed patients, enabling them to control a robotic arm
“One guy was able to fist bump President Obama, at that time, and he was able to feel it. So I thought that was really cool.”
- Ladan Jiracek
The issue is that these implants do not last very long. It will degrade within 1-2 years because of the body attacking it
Brain-Machine Interface (BMI) VS BCI
Those 2 terms are interchangeable
He prefers the term BCI because it sounds fancier and more high-tech
What Is BCI?
An interface between the brain and a computer
To output information from the brain so that it can go into a computer
It can be bidirectional
The brain is composed of neurons and they send signals to each other via electricity
We can intercept the signals with metal electrodes, plugs, surfaces, etc.
Types Of BCIs
There are invasive and non-invasive BCIs
There are different levels of invasiveness
The implantable type from Blackrock Microsystems is very invasive
Electrocorticography (ECoG) implant goes on the surface of the brain
There are wearable ones that do not require any implantation. Will have a lot of noise and it will be difficult to make things out
Will Non-Invasives Ever Beat Invasives?
There’s something similar to Moore’s law in Neurotech that’s called Stevenson’s law
Stevenson’s law: Doubling of electrodes every 7 years. Hence, it’s slower than Moore’s law
Think that it is probably impossible for non-invasives to beat invasives
It’s probably not necessary to go down to that level for non-invasives
Invasives could have a much smaller ask (e.g. needle-based) and still have high-fidelity
Stevenson’s Law
Why do people care about the number of electrodes?
It is similar to the cocktail analogy — how many conversations can you pick up?
It allows you to fine-tune what your inputs are
Using the Blackrock implantable array as an example, for paraplegics, the more individually addressable channels that you have, the more degrees of freedom/motions they can make
What Are BCIs Used For Today?
Used for deep brain stimulation and for epilepsy
Deep brain stimulation is currently being used for movement disorders like Parkinson’s
Preventing seizures
A big thing that they found is that it can reduce addiction levels
Why Is It Not More Well-Known As A Solution?
It is expensive — $100,000 to have it implanted
It’s kind of invisible as well
How Does The Body Try To Destroy The Implant?
This is his PhD topic
He is making devices and fabrication methods that can survive it/make it invisible so that the body does not see it as a threat
If you make things small enough, it reduces the foreign body response (below 8-10 microns)
The softer the device is, the less likely it will trigger the inflammatory response
How Long Does The Charge Last?
The batteries last a decade
They are also rechargeable batteries
Some of them can be charged wirelessly
There are also batteryless devices that work off an electric field
Other Use Cases?
There are also peripheral nerve interfaces (PNI). It involves other nerves (e.g. nerves in the arm)
Vagus Nerve Stimulation is very promising
The Vagus Nerve innervates lots of organs in the body. By stimulating this nerve, it could create pharmaceutical-like effects (e.g. stimulate it to have the pancreas secrete insulin)
It is complicated to stimulate it as it is a big nerve bundle. If you do a blanket stimulation, it affects everything downstream as well
Stimulation has about the same efficacy as pharmaceuticals
Connecting To The Metaverse
Think we need a lot more doublings of electrode count to connect to the Metaverse
It’s multi-dimensional. Hence, there are a lot of things that are slowing it down
Most Exciting Company In The Neurotech Field
Elon Musk’s company Neuralink — they are using the best practices and has good methods
Bryan Johnson’s company Kernel — does wearable near-infrared brain signal measurements and brain stimulation
A company called Paradromics — one of their devices has 65,000 channels compared to Neuralink’s 1000
Paradromics uses a different manufacturing process
His Thoughts On Man And Machine Merging
He is fine with it. Think it’s the progress of humans
Changes will be small and incremental
Will AI Kill Us?
AI is a tool and does not have emotions
Interacting With Computers Using Our Thoughts?
Think that it is promising and could work
Computers would become so good at predicting that you do not need a BCI to do that
Is AI’s Evolution Correlated To BCI’s Evolution?
AI’s evolution might get so good that it pulls along BCI’s evolution with it
The “iPhone Moment” For BCIs
He is working on a startup that is trying to bring about the iPhone moment for BCIs
His startup is for sexual health
“The Internet was built on sex.”
- Ladan Jiracek
It will be a partially implantable device that will improve your sexual performance
You could pair the device with a partner and get simultaneous orgasms
Are There Common Misconceptions About BCIs?
There’s not many misconceptions as not many people know about it
The Major Downside Of BCIs
A hype cycle happens with a lot of things
There’s a huge hype, then disillusionment, then it comes back to reality. Thinks that this will happen to BCIs as well
What Does The Metaverse Mean To Him?
The metaverse is good and has a future
Unfortunately, there was one company that sucked everything up and prevented creative ideas from flourishing
Thinks that AR is a better stepping stone
BCIs will have their role to play
What Is He Bearish On?
Currently, the metaverse
What Is He Bullish On?
AI
What Traits Most Defines Who He Is
He does not care what other people think about him
What Motivates Him?
Work on both his PhD and his startup
Want to get neural tech on people’s radar
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