Primer: John Egan is no stranger to the Zima Red Podcast. In this second appearance, Andrew Steinwold catches up with him on the developments at L'Atelier as well as his thoughts on various philosophical issues on the Metaverse.
Origins
CEO of L'Atelier at BNP Paribas
L'Atelier: Foresight business that uses data and proprietary tech to forecast emerging market opportunities and challenges at the intersection of tech and social change. Over the last number of years, their focus is on NFTs as an emerging economic infrastructure for virtual landscapes
Background as an economist, but spent most of his career in finance
L'Atelier Report On The Virtual Economy
Seminal report released in May 2020
After researching the space for 6-9 months, they realized that the metaverse is emerging (growth of NFTs, gaming, AI, and the broader blockchain space)
What Is The Metaverse?
Ambiguous term as everyone has a different picture of the metaverse
To him, the metaverse is a hybrid digi-physical space. A virtual landscape that exists over the physical world around us
"What is the metaverse? The metaverse is the capacity for a universe to be constructed that offers a fully immersive experience." - John Egan
More likely for a mixed reality metaverse rather than a fully virtual metaverse in the short term. Facebook, Google, Samsung, and Apple are investing in mixed reality infrastructure. Still, there will be platforms that offer a fully virtual experience and growth in those platforms will continue. Both kinds of metaverses are not mutually exclusive
A mixed reality metaverse will take the concept mainstream
Is A Metaverse Without True Property Rights Possible?
Historically, humans use centralized infrastructure to preserve the rights of ownership within that environment
However, people now prefer decentralized systems
Exit Cost In The Digital World
Digital communities allow people to open up and become vulnerable to one another due to:
Its semi-anonymous nature
Affinity among members
Not being bounded by geographic proximity, ethnicity, or heritage
People leverage on these communities in a transient way and then move on to the next one. Over time, people become more cynical in that process. He has seen this a lot over the past 15 years for the millennial culture
How To Make Online Communities Robust And Healthier?
Dependent on the platform as some platforms tend to be more toxic than others. We live in a world where people are not held responsible for what they say
Clash of cultures ("Freedom of Speech" in the US vs "Freedom of Expression" in the UK)
Possible solutions:
Use a new verification layer to allow communication with those who are already verified
Raise the value of the avatar that the person is using. Hence, people are more reluctant to leave that avatar as it now has value
On WallStreetBets
Most interesting thing that developed was the antipathy towards hedge funds and the willingness to take a loss just to take them down
People were angry since 2008 and wanted to take revenge against Wallstreet. First opportunity for them to take part in financial activism/digital activism
This is a marker for how we are likely to see activism work in the future
Different Market Segments of the Metaverse
Market Segments
Digital real estate that is connected to virtual casinos are growing
Virtual pets. With improvements in AI, virtual pets will become smarter and be able to interact with people and objects
Intelligent virtual agents that combine IoT with AI
Market segment with the greatest potential for outsized returns
Virtual pets because it can break through to the mainstream
Competitive Edge In The Sector
Branding
Interoperability
Product innovation and how the smart contracts are actually assembled within an NFT to provide varying different levels of revenue to different stakeholders
Dominant Business Model In The Metaverse
Ads will not be the business model in the metaverse
Will come back to Andrew with the name of his new start-up once he has found the answer to it
Will Large Tech Firms Create A Metaverse Before Smaller Start-ups That Are Working On An Open Metaverse?
Yes, because they have enormous amounts of capital
The core proposition of the metaverse is for people to earn income. If a centralized metaverse does not facilitate people to do that, they will become obsolete
"I do think that core to the metaverse proposition has been and will continue to be the ability for people to earn income in that space, to develop wealth, to own assets." - John Egan
Worsening economic inequality and declining social mobility. People will gravitate to where they could earn just to maintain their standard of living and avoid falling into poverty. They will be attracted by the strongest financial proposition
What Does The Future Of Work Look Like?
Important to distinguish between future of work and future of labour
Future of work: how do I develop new supplemental income streams? How do I mitigate existing labour fragility?
Future of work is going to be challenging for a lot of people. Organizations are less inclined to give permanent contracts and will prefer robotics/AI instead
The crypto space offers people work, but the problem is that those who need it are not fluent enough to leverage this space
Role Of AI In The Metaverse
AI is pervasive. More likely, the metaverse will be leveraging AI tech to reduce platform load or incorporating AI advisory services
Future Of Death
Not about bringing the dead back as a robot
Use of holographics and AI to reanimate people
Use cases:
One member of an elderly couple dies and the one who died can be reanimated to keep the other company
Having Einstein as physics teacher; Bach as music teacher
Allow people to have closure and say goodbye to someone who died
Could also be used for nefarious purposes:
Reanimate someone and undermine their legacy
People are now trying to commercialize every aspect of their lives. Ties back to the concept of increasing economic inequality where the rich are getting richer. People are frustrated and the consequence of that frustration is to monetize their lives
Will The Rich Access The Metaverse First?
It starts with the rich, and then eventually it makes its way down to the poor over time
In 1928, John Maynard Keynes, an economist, wrote an essay called the Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren. He mentioned that, over the next century, the accumulation of capital and technology would ensure that nobody would have to work. The ironic thing is that Keynes is right, but only for the wealthy
Will People Want To Leave The Metaverse If It Is 10,000 Times Better Than The Physical World?
There are people out there who think that the physical world does not suit them. The metaverse will provide a fantastic outlet for them
"But now we are on the precipice of individuals being able to bring their favorite stories to life, their favorite environments, their favorite characters to life." - John Egan
People will also develop dependencies and that there will be a health risk that needs to be dealt with
Wrote an article on the Hikikomori in Japan before. The Hikikomori are recluses that do not go outside and have given up on society. The stress of life and the feeling that they have failed have predisposed them towards this kind of forced introversion. The metaverse will end up being very appealing to them
The metaverse could also bring the stories we read to life. Enormous demand for people who would want to immerse themselves in these worlds (e.g. Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, Dune, etc)
Stuff He Is Working On
Currently building their own technology to analyze large datasets (e.g. global academic data, grants data, patent registrations data, investment flow data)
Doing a big project on social mobility
Focusing on security tokens and social tokens for the rest of this year
Most Controversial Thought
Currencies need a place to be used if it's meant to be a currency. People are buying MANA just to hold instead of spending it in Decentraland
If You Could Change One Thing About The Space
Interoperability between platforms
Metaverse In 3 Years
NFTs to become far more normalized and mainstream
Expect big game publishers to roll out their own platforms and tokens. More infrastructure being developed around these economies
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